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Columbus and the templars

Author: Titus Livius
Date: April 14, 2013 10:12PM
Hello Freddy, and welcome.
My question is about Christophorus Columbus' enterprise and a possible link with the templars. Despite being a very famous person in History, some aspects of his life are still unknown. Some researchers have suggested that perhaps he was not italian, but catalonian or portuguese, and perhaps he was a templar (or had a good relationship with them). And it is well known that, before presenting his project to the kings of Spain, he had been previously in the portuguese royal court looking for the portuguese support for his plans. And it is also suggested that in that court he might have had access to secrets maps of America, made by early European explorers... the templars. Regarding this, there has been some speculation about the situation of the main port of the templars, La Rochelle, which was located in the Atlantic coast, while it would have been more logical to have a main port in the Mediterranian Sea, the Templars' natural field of operations. Some authors claim that the reason for this location has to do with secret expeditions to obtain silver in South America. And, last but not least, it is undeniable that the three ships commanded by Columbus in his first trip wore the typical templar "paté" cross in their sails. What's your opinion on these speculations? Thank you in advance, Titus Livius

Author: Thunderbird
Date: April 14, 2013 11:13PM
Dr. Manuel Luciano da Silva, Portuguese medical doctor and investigator, notes:
According to his extensive research the Portuguese found their way to the Americas prior to the 22nd of August 1424, a whopping 68 years before the Genovese Columbus accidentally stumbled on the "New Land." History reveals that Columbus was the first European to set foot in the Americas. He was on his way to India and thought he had arrived via the East when in fact he "stumbled" on America on the 12th of October 1492. Dr. da Silva uses some very convincing arguments proving that contrary to popular belief, Columbus arrived over half a century too late to claim him as being the first. Using a nautical map and scroll drawn up by Zuanne Pizzigano dated 1424, archaeological and toponimical proofs, Dr. da Silva elaborately contests history. The nautical map, a part of the James Bell Ford collection at the University of Minnesota, reveals the contours of the "Terra Nova" and "Nova Escocia" as well as several islands in the Caribbean sea. Several other places in Central America are easily identified. Another convincing piece of evidence presented by Dr. da Silva is the Stone of Dighton discovered at the mouth of River Taunton in Massachusetts. Professor Edmund Delabarre of the Brown University identified many important inscriptions on this stone in 1918. The 40 ton stone bears the name, Miguel Corte Real, the date 1511, and the Portuguese coat of arms, as well the symbol of the Portuguese Order of Christ. This stone had been submerged by water for many years. A final piece of evidence presented is a list of 92 names compiled by Canadian Reverend George Patterson. He states that the 92 names of places and people in Canada date back to Portuguese origins. Examples are: Bacalhao, Fogo, Minas, Ilha das Gamas, Portugal, Porto Novo, etc. In studies carried out among the ancient Indian tribes, they reveal that Portugal was indeed the first European presence in Canada, and several tribes attribute their name to the Portuguese national emblem. [www.thornr.demon.co.uk] Portuguese Discoveries in North America T Bird....the peoples who would be recognized as Portugal by the Pope, were navigating Africa....had trade contacts...as far as Ethiopia. the Atlantic conveyor current will drop you off in Central American waters. you need only survive the journey...and hope your ship endures....so you can get home. Portugese peoples and Brazil.... the Pope wrote a Papal Bull in connection to the new world discovery. seems the Portuguese peoples already knew about what existed beyond what Christobal Colon claimed. Pope was kicking chairs across the room......the Portuguese had tricked him : ) reasonably the Phoenicians and Egyptians knew about the New World. even the Chinese.... one question to ask...is why the Columbus expedition Involved Spain. why involve a power.....when you can go there on private banking and present terms...to a Power....like Spain....afterwards. On the net.....ruminations that Cristobal Colon was a Jew or Jewish lineage/hidden truth. such as it may be....he may have had access to maps/charts via the Templar's legacy.. speculation that he sails under the Templar cross....or simply a Red Cross on a white sail which would be OK with Spain. The absolute mystery to the above.....is who was fronting the play. what/whose money was behind the venture.....and desired to remain un named...in the great story. T Bird

Author: Titus Livius
Date: April 15, 2013 02:12PM
Hello T-bird
Thanks for your extended response with these remarkable sources. Well, it's not news that Columbus did not discover America, at least in the sense this is taught at schools. Many people before him had arrived to american coasts (including maybe the Chinese big exploration, as claimed by Gavin Menzies in his book "1421"). And it is more than likely that the templars (or portuguese) had made some previous travels to the "New" world, and therefore they might have accurate maps of the zone, as you point out. Regarding the Pope's role in the Columbus' expedition, I read an interesting theory by an Italian jornalist called Ruggero Marino. He states that Pope Innocent VIII had convinced the catholic Kings of Spain, Isabel and Fernando, to sponsor Columbus' trip. His objective was to achieve great amounts of gold (from America) to fund a new crusade against the muslims, who were particulary dangerous after the fall of the Byzantine empire. Why Spain and not Portugal, this is a good question that Ruggero does not answer. In any case, Ruggero suggests that Innocent, born in Genoa, and whose real name was Giovanni Battista Cybo, from a jewish family, might have been Columbus' father and this could be a very good reason for his support and guide. He also states that the word "Cuba" (the caribbean island) was not an original native name, but a derivation of Cybo (or "Cubus"). But there is a very curious detail about this Pope. He died in summer 1492, just a week before Columbus started his first trip. However, in his mortuary monument at St. Peter's, you can find this inscription: Novi orbis suo aevo inventi gloria ("His is the glory of the discovery of the New Wold"). So, even admitting that the inscription was made some months after Cybo's death, nobody knew in those times that Columbus had arrived to a "New World". Best regards, TL

 

Author: Vanya
Date: April 15, 2013 08:02AM
>And, last but not least, it is undeniable that the three ships commanded by Columbus in his first trip wore the typical templar "paté" cross in their sails.
Hi Xavier, that's interesting cause it can help to find some more clue about him. Could you post the images (possible the more oldest ones) of such "paté" cross on sails? It would be very interesting because it will show which "Templars Order" it would have belong to, having present that Columbus sailed from Palos de la Frontera, Spain. Thank you in advance Ivano

Author: loveritas
Date: April 15, 2013 08:30AM
Hi Vanya,
Just a guess. lover

Author: Vanya
Date: April 16, 2013 04:55PM
Hi lover,
the answer is contained in my post here: [www.grahamhancock.com] from which I quoted this passage:
Then this Symbol of The Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem (lat.: Ordo Equestris Sancti Sepulcri Hierosolymitani, OESSH) which a Roman Catholic order of knighthood under the protection of the pope.
> It traces its roots to Duke Godfrey of Bouillon, principal leader of the First Crusadethe Order of Canons of the Holy Sepulchre.:
GA Ordre du Saint Sepulcre
Does it needs more explanation? I guess not. Ivano

Author: loveritas
Date: April 16, 2013 09:36PM
Hi Vanya,
It's just a guess because the Santa Maria ran aground and sank in 1492. The Pinta made it back to Spain but disappeared from history. The Nina actually made three voyages under Columbus but was lost in 1501. There are no records of just what insignias were on the sails. The images which I have posted are from the Columbus Foundation which undertook the construction of the Nina and Pinta to an as exact replication as is currently possible. The insignias could be the Victory Cross, the Jerusalem Cross or something else. lover

Navigations, Papal Bulls and Slavery

Author: Thunderbird
Date: April 17, 2013 02:56AM
Hi L
Pope Nicholas V and slavery Nicholas issued the bull "Dum Diversas" (18 June 1452) for King Alfonso V of Portugal to give him the right to "attack, conquer, and subjugate Saracens, Pagans and other enemies of Christ wherever they may be found." The geographical area of the concession given in the bull is not explicit, but Richard Raiswell[who?] argues that the use of the terms "pagans" and "other enemies of Christ" indicates the scope of the bull was applicable to the newly-discovered lands along the west coast of Africa and that the ambiguity of the text was such that it encouraged the Portuguese to extend their explorations further afield. He further argues that the use of crusading language in the bull served to make the Christian-Muslim relationship the model for Africa.[9] The ownership of the Canary Islands continued to be a source of dispute between Spain and Portugal and Nicholas was asked to settle the matter, ultimately in favor of the Portuguese.[10] The bull issued by Nicholas Romanus Pontifex (8 January 1455), reaffirmed Dum Diversas and also sanctioned the purchase of black slaves from "the infidel".[11] The bull also conferred exclusive trading rights to the Portuguese between Morocco and the Indies with the rights to conquer and convert the inhabitants.[12] A significant concession given by Nicholas in a brief issued to King Alfonso in 1454 extended the rights granted to existing territories to all those that might be taken in the future.[13] It is argued that collectively the two bulls issued by Nicholas gave the Portuguese the rights to acquire slaves along the African coast by force or trade. The concessions given in them were confirmed by bulls issued by Pope Callixtus III (Inter Caetera quae in 1456), Sixtus IV (Aeterni regis in 1481), and Leo X (1514), and they became the models for subsequent bulls issued by Pope Alexander VI : Eximiae devotionis (3 May 1493), Inter Caetera (4 May 1493) and Dudum Siquidem (23 September 1493), in which he conferred similar rights to Spain relating to the newly-discovered lands in the Americas.[14] [wiki- Pope Nicolas V] *************************************************** The Court appointed Francisco de Bobadilla, a member of the Order of Calatrava, but not as the aide that Columbus had requested. Instead, Bobadilla was given complete control as governor from 1500 until his death in 1502. Arriving in Santo Domingo while Columbus was away, Bobadilla was immediately met with complaints about all three Columbus brothers: Christopher, Bartolomé, and Diego. Consuelo Varela, a Spanish historian, states: "Even those who loved him [Columbus] had to admit the atrocities that had taken place."[70][71] Columbus before the Queen, as imagined[72] by Emanuel Gottlieb Leutze, 1843 Based on these testimonies and without given the chance to offer a defense, Columbus, upon his return, was chained and imprisoned to await return to Spain. On 1 October 1500, Columbus and his two brothers, likewise in chains, were sent back to Spain. Once in Cadiz, a grieving Columbus wrote to a friend at court: It is now seventeen years since I came to serve these princes with the Enterprise of the Indies. They made me pass eight of them in discussion, and at the end rejected it as a thing of jest. Nevertheless I persisted therein ... Over there I have placed under their sovereignty more land than there is in Africa and Europe, and more than 1,700 islands ... In seven years I, by the divine will, made that conquest. At a time when I was entitled to expect rewards and retirement, I was incontinently arrested and sent home loaded with chains ... The accusation was brought out of malice on the basis of charges made by civilians who had revolted and wished to take possession on the land ... I beg your graces, with the zeal of faithful Christians in whom their Highnesses have confidence, to read all my papers, and to consider how I, who came from so far to serve these princes ... now at the end of my days have been despoiled of my honor and my property without cause, wherein is neither justice nor mercy.[73] A recently discovered report by Francisco de Bobadilla alleges that Columbus regularly used barbaric acts of torture to govern Hispaniola. Bobadilla, who had already replaced Columbus as governor of the Indies at the time of the report, had been asked by Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand to investigate accusations of brutality made against Columbus.The 48-page report, found in 2006 in the state archive in the Spanish city of Valladolid, contains testimonies from 23 people, including both enemies and supporters of Columbus, about Columbus and his brothers' treatment of colonial subjects during his seven-year rule. [70] [wiki - Christopher Columbus] *************************************************** Heavy sigh.....Cristobal was a psychopath. and what went down via the Portuguese and the slave trade is just as dark. granted....slavery has existed for 1000's of years, yet it would seem the malevolent aspirations of man broke loose in a big way right around the time of the Crusades and the navigation journeys. the various Holy purges in Europe......a huge never ending psychotic episode. The Movie....The Last Valley* with Michael Cain reveals mercenaries would attack Protestant and Catholic.....who ever paid best. I find it hard to believe the Templars and the later period Orders* were apart from all this... from Slave trade to the 100 years wars. you can't be in the top tier pipeline of finance and royal court reach,...and be apart from all this. Has there been any Light within the Gnostic community in those times? the binder cover imply's compassion and service for Christ and man. chivalry in some cases. yet the landscape is bloody horror. Kali Yuga.... T Bird

Follow the Money

Author: loveritas
Date: April 17, 2013 10:43PM
Hi T Bird,
A little perspective. Christianity became the state religion of Rome in 391 AD - a political move. Popes replaced Emperors. To the masses what was Christianity? Something imposed upon them with dire consequences for rejection. Non-acceptance was heresy. The reward of heresy was often death. Even when Gutenberg invented the printing press in 1450, anyone found in possession of a Bible was martyred. So, it is understandable that the average person, totally ignorant of whatever Christ was for (attending Mass in Latin even until recently), when given absolution for all sins for the act of killing the unbeliever, from whom he could steal whatever he could, didn't see much downside in becoming a Crusader/Pilgrim. Crusades = Murder + Robbery + Slavery (In God's Name) The Church sanctioned murder, robbery and slavery. Why? All subjects of Rome were subject to taxation. The more subjects, the more taxation. The richer the subjects, the higher the taxation. And on top of taxation, the Church enforced tithing. So, whatever was misappropriated from the unbeliever was financially beneficial to the Church. Not to mention seizure of goods and property for the crime of heresy. Enter Columbus. It appears that Columbus was most probably an entrepreneur of sorts. He had an idea which would make him rich (or so he thought) and needed some start-up capital. His investors expected a return and so, an agreement was drawn up and he went into business with the Castillian monarchy. There does not appear to be any overt connection with the Templars or their Portugeuse counterparts. By the time of Columbus, the Order had ceased to exist in its original form. But later another Order bears his name. Without going into how the Order of Templars became so wealthy, suffice it to say that their wealth was considerable. Where did it go? Pope Clement V, the business partner of Philip the Fair, by the Papal Bull of 1312, ceded all the property of the Templars to the Knights Hospitallers (originally ecclesiastical but later became a Military Order). You can research who this group was, but their front is helping the sick even to this day. The Hospitallers are now known as the Knights of Columbus or the Knights of Malta. Add in usury through credit notes and formal banking to the income stream. Quite a few well known politicians and bankers are Knights of Malta. [www.biblebelievers.org.au] The following link contains their Oath and their connection to the Jesuits. [www.biblebelievers.org.au] Interestingly, the new Pope is a Jesuit. (Did Ratzinger really "retire"? And wasn't the last Prime Minister of Italy replaced? One could be forgiven to think that some strings are being pulled.) [au.businessinsider.com] lover

Author: Thunderbird
Date: April 18, 2013 03:48AM
>>Quite a few well known politicians and bankers are Knights of Malta. [www.biblebelievers.org.au]
The following link contains their Oath and their connection to the Jesuits. [www.biblebelievers.org.au] Interestingly, the new Pope is a Jesuit. (Did Ratzinger really "retire? And wasn't the last Prime Minister of Italy replaced? One could be forgiven to think that some strings are being pulled.) [au.businessinsider.com] Have posted on these characters over on Gunpowder before, and the play...all the way back to Bush crime family beginnings and WW-2/Trading with the enemy/reich bankster. things got messy after the P2 banking scandal....and....dead guy hanging from friars bridge : ) of late...they have re -emerged as the Troika of Euro banking [all Jesuit trained]... and with the world commercial paper on the verge of blowing up, [they kicked it down the road in 2007 after the hedge funds blew up and then the banks] so...the sands of the hour glass run out. we probably saw a bit of the action when gold tumbled over 300 points, and several gold producers have lost 25% value and are underwater in operations debt. T Bird

Author: Eddie Larry
Date: April 19, 2013 12:54AM
"so...the sands of the hour glass run out." Brad, the hour glass will never run out of greed. PS: One of the greatest problems today is that the younger generation has, for the most part, been denied a Jesuit education. They are lost at sea in a boat with no oars.

Author: Thunderbird
Date: April 19, 2013 04:04AM
>>PS: One of the greatest problems today is that the younger generation has, for the most part, been denied a Jesuit education. They are lost at sea in a boat with no oars.
Surely not those trained at Jesuit Georgetown Maybe the Church Universal should complain louder. seeing that the choice is to go 50 G + in debt for a green education to save Kalifornia. They say its a Kali Yuga now.....darkness. Jesuits wear black robes if memory serves .... except Jesuit Bankers. Judges wear Black Robes......2013 and the year of the Snake should be favorable for them. Then there's the scene from the Movie......Black Robe where the Indian Shaman shakes his rattle at the Jesuit and calls him .... a Demon. : ) T Bird

Author: Vanya
Date: April 19, 2013 05:24AM
HI Brad,
I was for few years attended to the after school complementary teaching program by Jesuites. (Primary schools). Believe me or not, Religion never were teached there. Their teaching were addressed to reinforce the comprehension of areas in which each student was weak. Personally I was reinforced in Geography and Mathematics, as well as to interpersonal communication and respect of the people. Their methods worked very well having them an iron hand in soft velvet glove. I can say that I was lucky to have had such possibility. NOTE: Such Jesuite after school program was completely free. Ivano

Author: Eddie Larry
Date: April 19, 2013 06:22PM
Brad, do you mind if I ask you why you spelled California with a K?

Author: Thunderbird
Date: April 20, 2013 03:34AM
>>Brad, do you mind if I ask you why you spelled California with a K?
Kali....as in Kali Yuga. If you don't mind Eddie,....I'll chat with you and answer Vanya's post about the Jesuits. Was in Christian ministry for near 2 decades, and....was also a participant for a few years with a Messianic fellowship, where yours truly was on Torah reading rotation. have taught and spoken to large gatherings, and hosted video conferences. Will not go into detail on what event occurred which gave me pause about the direction my life was headed, suffice to say....I've seen it all, and it is darkness,deception and opportunism with power people using what ever leverage they could reach for. It was when my heart was truly broken....when in the brokenness of Spirit ... found my footing...and just quietly walked away with no Opus for attention. Since then my Spirit has been happy,....free of guilt [yes...a journey] and the creative has flown within me. I have no agenda now to persecute said Faiths, yet I will point to the obvious and overt abuses and the system which walks hand in hand with Military adventurism, subjugation of peoples....and overt projection of fear. Know many good Christians and Jews......and Muslims yet am no longer accepted in their circles. ya.....dumped on the curb and forgotten. so many....too many,.....are just discards in the game. Funny [but not really]...you should ask about Kalifornia. a friend from my time at the Vineyard church, he and his wife were in the main church worship music set every Sunday and other meetings. She dumped him on the curb....and ran off with the Pastor. They then moved to San Diego where they live in a huge house,....have a big ministry, and the sailing boat in the harbor....its Eden for them. and my friend.....brokenness and despair Life can appear very cruel at times,....this is a mystery. have been in 5 vehicle accidents....all of which were not my fault. should be dead several times over,...yet for some reason...am supposed be down here. am disabled by the way..... from one of those accidents. I could have been a little boy in Dresden during WW-2 and burned to death by bombing and fires. or nuked in Hiroshima... or a starved and crippled something from the dirty 30's, yet...Life gave me a door to open if I was willing, the years of unique fellowship with the crew of USS Isherwood DD 520. was told by the Curator at the Washington Navy yard...that I was the first Isherwood to obtain the ships war records and photo's based on their records. This became studies of our Family history...learning of their lives and times. Luv history....its a passion...especially the visual, so ya....enjoy quality movies and such. learned also....that History does not always portray things correctly. My Father is direct lineage to the Isherwood who married John Bradshawe's daughter. Bradshawe was the Judge of Englands Parliament during the time of Oliver Cromwell and the wars. His signature is on Charles I death warrant. in later years...he opposed Cromwell as being a Tyrant and rebuked him. when Charles II became King.....they dug up Cromwell's body and Bradshawe's and hung them. He has a burial crypt of some form in Westminister if memory serves, it may have been moved or still there. Our Family name goes from Isherwood,....to de Escherwode.....and then Yserwude. vanish into the mists of time.... Welsh historians counter that the name is from Wales pre 1000 AD I as born on Thursday....[Thors day] and the families lost habitation from near Bolton [Bolton le moors] Lancashire, is Nordic/Druid turf ...woden and such. smiling.....Thor is a good fit : ) Have been brought low, and yet....taken to the Mountain to see beyond and understand I am of value. luv to encourage people...... yet something of the warrior is present. T Bird

Author: Dr. Lew Graham
Date: April 20, 2013 12:29PM
Aloha Brad,
This was a riveting read. Truly authentic, and one of your best yet. Your success with teaching and inspiring continues to expand. Lew

Author: Eddie Larry
Date: April 20, 2013 06:11PM
Brad, I just didn't see how "Kalifornia" came into a post about Columbus and the Templars. Now I do, thanks PS: In my timing system the kali yuga ended yesterday. It always does. Tomorrow is another day.

Author: Audrey
Date: April 22, 2013 05:31AM
thunderbird........ wow. I didn't see that coming. Quite an interesting background you have. That was cool, sharing it with us, and I thank you.

Author: Vanya
Date: April 22, 2013 06:17AM
Hi Brad,
first of all tks to have share your life experience. Now some of your toughts became clear.
>learned also....that History does not always portray things correctly.
That's a truth which always have to kept well in mind when people wish to try to understand the past events. Nice and bright day Ivano

Author: Vanya
Date: April 18, 2013 06:55AM
Bingooo !! Compliments for a mostly real analysis ! Ivano

Columbus and the templars

Author: Vanya
Date: April 17, 2013 06:59AM
loveritas wrote:
>The insignias could be the Victory Cross, the Jerusalem Cross or something else.
Hy lover,
As probably you have seen in my answer to Titus Livius (16-Apr-13 19:47), personally I'm inclined toward the Victory Cross (Cruz de la Victoria) for the explained reason and "clues" shown in such post. In fact the Symbol of The Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem, - which is shown in your posted image - was (and is) a Papal symbol. Thta's the reason why I seriously doubt that Queen Isabel I, who facilitate to finance the expedition, would have allowed to put a Papal symbol on the vessel's sails. And more, the discovery of "new lands" were done and claimed in the name of the Kingdom of Castille & Aragon and not on Papal name. For what above the facts strongly pointed toward the symbol of Victory Cross (Cruz de la Victoria) which were the most important and significative symbol among Cristian Kingdoms in Spain in those times. Ivano

Author: Titus Livius
Date: April 15, 2013 12:32PM
Hi Ivano
This is a representation of the paté cross in the three ships, although one of the "carabelas" should have latin (triangular) sails.
carabelas 3 Colon
Regards

Author: Vanya
Date: April 16, 2013 07:47PM
First od all thank you Xavier, for quick answer and interesting pictures which IMO reflect what most probably were the reality. Already FreddySilva gave to you a very appropriate clear answer about many variations of the cross at Columbus' time. About the "origin" of the Cross depicted on the sails of suich image, I guess you must well know it: it is the "Cruz de la Victoria" (Victory Cross). and you can see it in this pictures which show on the letf "Fernando II de Aragón" while on the right show his espuse "Isabel I de Castilla ". To note in the middle, between them, an image of a Saint Messanger from Christ (who is depicted with a lower stature than that of the Royal Couple". The Saint Messanger with is left arms has the Golden Calix with the Blood of Jesus Christ (it has the form of the calix which was (and still is) in use- during Cathlic mass function), while in his right hand the Saint Messanger has the "Cruz de la Victoria":
IsabellaofCastile
Now to better explain (NOT to you of course cause you well know the history of your wonderful Country) to does not know such History, here below I try to give a short and very syntetic explanation about bthe cross on when, who and why: We can well see that cross on the monument of Don Pelayo (718 - 737 AD) who was the first King of the Asturias kingdom.
Don Pelayo
Why Asturias ? Here is the answer: in Spanish (and English translated by me): La monarquía asturiana, a base de varias escisiones y reagrupaciones daría paso en los siglos siguientes a los Reinos de León, de Galicia, de Castilla y de Portugal. A partir de ese momento y hasta 1492 la Península Ibérica estará dividida en una parte musulmana y otra cristiana.. The Asturian monarchy, based on several splitting and regrouping would step in the centuries to following, the Kingdoms of Leon, Galicia , Castile and Portugal . From then until 1492, the Iberian peninsula is divided into a Muslim and a Christian. see for a better understanding the picture of such Cross:
Oviedo croix Victoire
The Victory Cross is a crux gemmata or jewelled cross, given by King Alfonso III of Asturias, who reigned from 848 to 910, to Cathedral of San Salvador (Oviedo). According to the legend, the wooden core was carried by King Pelagius of Asturias (Don Pelayo) at the Battle of Covadonga. The old oak wooden cross was covered with gold and precious stones in 908, under King Alfonso III and donated to the dean of the Cathedral of San Salvador (Oviedo), where is still today. So on the three caravels sails if on them were were a cross, for sure it would have been the "Cruz de la Victoria. Nice and Bright day Ivano

Author: FreddySilva
Date: April 15, 2013 02:04PM
Hello Titus,
Columbus did solicit the Portuguese court and was denied access to maps and routes, even though his father-in-law was a knight of the Portuguese Order of Christ. That's pretty much where the connection stops. (see page 281 of my book). By his time, the Templars had been largely exterminated, except for two locations: in Portugal, where they changed their name to the above, — in fact it is one of history's greatest practical jokes, at the expense of the Church — and they maintained a working relationship with the Templars who'd fled to Scotland. Finding themselves at two extreme corners of Europe, and with Philip le Bal and the Pope in the ascendent, they had no option but go west and follow the star eastern gnostics called Merika. From which comes the name A-merika. But that's another story. Thanks to the Templars' knowledge of seafaring, and the fact that Henry the Navigator was both Templar Master and a Nautonnier of the Priure de Sion, the Portuguese crown naturally should have wanted to keep its cards close to the chest. Certainly they were in America at an early stage and well before Columbus. When the Vikings reached Newfoundland, for example, the locals already called cod 'bacalhau', which indeed is the Portuguese name for that fish. Further, Henry St. Clair allegedly made a voyage to what would become Nova Scotia with a Genoese sailor and cartographer. What is interesting is that, shortly after, a map of this region did surface from that family and it shows a part of Labrador with what appear to be Portuguese fishing vessels and the Portuguese flag. The Genoese had for several centuries worked with the Portuguese nobility, and thus it si likely this connection was maintained until the time of Columbus.

Author: Thunderbird
Date: April 15, 2013 07:19PM
Columbus in Portugal 1476 to 1485 [http://www.christopher-columbus.eu/portugal-1476-1485.htm]
Interesting.....Cristobal has some experience under his belt as it were. maybe some intrinsic point of info will emerge indicating why the Portuguese court rejected his proposals. King John II of Portugal excerpt: Exploration King John II. John II famously restored the policies of Atlantic exploration, reviving the work of his great-uncle, Henry the Navigator. The Portuguese explorations were his main priority in government, pushing south the known coast of Africa with the purpose of discovering the maritime route to India and breaking into the spice trade. During his reign, the following achievements were realized: 1482 – Foundation of the coastal fortress and trade post of São Jorge da Mina ( Elmina ). 1484 – Discovery of the Congo River by Diogo Cão 1488 – Discovery and passage of the Cape of Good Hope by Bartolomeu Dias in Mossel Bay[1] 1493 – Start of the settlement of the São Tomé and Príncipe islands by Álvaro Caminha Funding of land expeditions by Afonso de Paiva and Pêro da Covilhã to India and Ethiopia in search of Prester John land. Some historians[who?] argue about the real extent of Portuguese voyages of exploration during this period, claiming the king had a secrecy policy. According to this theory some navigations were kept secret for fear of competition by neighbouring Castile. The archives of this period were destroyed in the fire after the 1755 Lisbon earthquake, and what was not destroyed during the earthquake was either stolen or destroyed during the Peninsular War or otherwise lost. Their true extent has long been the subject of academic debate.[2][3][4] T Bird

La Rochelle & Knights Templars

Author: Vanya
Hi Xavier,
La Rochelle was indeed a perfect logical sailing port for Templars, those of Hugues de Payns I mean. And here I try to explain why, if you have time and patience to read a simple but nevertheless complexed History of such times in North-West France. So then here I will try to explain as much shortly as I can: (what here below stated is extracted from my post here): [www.grahamhancock.com]
> The Order of the Templars was founded (according to the German historian R. Hiestand), between January and September 1120 by Hugues de Payns and Godfrey de Saint -Omer (a flaminng)
To note that at the times of First and Secon Crusades among the Knights the main important roles were plaied by FLAMING (So Fiandres in those times) and by Knights from CHANPAGNE-ARDENNE. Another Main role into starting of Second Crusade was plaied by Bernard of Clairvaux who was among the main actors in founding the CISTERCENSES ORDER. Here there is another quoted part of such my a.m. post:
> To be consider that From the economic point of view is that the gains from by administrative (tax exactions for the use of services , tolls, etc.), and judicial (taxes and fines) often have a weight which prevails over the proceeds of the land domain . For this reason the Lord has a population of interest in its lands, leading also to economic development (production and trade) and the use of technical tools of his own or under his control (roads , warehouses , mills , ovens, mills, etc.). A huge role in such process was plaid by Cistercians whom, in a systematic manner, organize new centers of agricultural exploitation (the " grangiae ") even on a long fallow and marsh. All was turning around to an Economic point of view being Flandres and Champagne the most "richest" land in Northern France connected with the huge domain of Papal States. Last but not least, speaking about Templars and their connections with England and Scotland: Flanders was a region historically linked to England. There was an major raw wool from England to Flanders, which if suspended, threatened to cripple the British economy at the same time stopping the activities of the Flemish textile.
So the Templars sailing from La Rochelle could have easily reached Scotland (the Highlands i.e. the most richest in Floks). Then they would have avoid to pass through Calais and England, paying a lot of taxes and upsetting local England Lords who historically dealed in this huge business. In fact there is the explanation (from wikipedia):
> The Knights Templar had a strong presence in La Rochelle since before the time of Eleanor of Aquitaine, who exempted them from duties and gave them mills in her 1139 Charter.[4] La Rochelle was for the Templars their largest base on the Atlantic Ocean,[5] and where they stationed their main fleet.[6] From La Rochelle, they were able to act as intermediaries in trade between England and the Mediterranean.
I ended such my post with this sentence:
> Their "interests" as you can see were mostly then addressed at first toward West and then the assumption made by Freddy Silva about Portugal find a logical sense in Templars History formerly development.
And to see the strict link (a Bond ?) among Templars, Cistercenses and Scotland, can be realize here:
> 1120. The rise of the Champagne fairs. And the development of the Artisan. 1128. Hugues de Payen visits Scotland, Balentrodach is created from a bequest by David 1, to be followed by Bequests by future Scottish Kings see Regis Scotum. 1129. Council of Troyes under the guidance of St. Bernard of Clairvaux. 1136. The creation of the Cistercian Abbey of Melrose. Scotland.
Extracted from this interesting site: Militi Templi Scotia [http://www.scalan.co.uk/templarsinscotland.htm] which start with this words:
> We are grateful to John Ritchie of the Militi Templi Scotia for providing this article and history of the Scottish Order of Templars. It is printed here with the permission of the order. An Introduction To Scottish Knights Templar: Militi Templi Scotia Templar History in Scotland:
That's is what we can see on the light of reperible and common written reperts. What it is not of common (and/or hidden) is a matter of speculations being those may be true or may be not. Do hope what above have given an answer to your doubt about Templars and La Rochelle. Nice and bright day Ivano

Author: Titus Livius
Date: April 21, 2013 08:36AM
Bon giorno Ivano
My apologies for not responding before; I've been a little busy. Well, your arguments seem quite reasonable and I think they fit into a logical geopolitical strategy in those times. It is obvious that the templars were an European Power, not only mediterranean, and the specific location of La Rochelle had some advantages - as you have mentioned- that could not be ignored. However, some alternative authors (I know the particular case of Javier Sierra, a Spanish researcher and writer) have pointed out certain facts that, despite they contain a great amount of speculation, might explain some features: 1) The sudden and rapid wealth of the Templars Order in a few decades or centuries. How could they obtain such enormous wealth only with their benefits in the Middle East? If they knew that America had great resources in gold and silver, it is possible that they sent secrets expeditions from The Atlantic Coast in order to accumulate these precious metals and increase their wealth and power in Europe (somewhat which eventually happened). According to Louis Charpentier, the great amount of silver coins circulating in Europe in those times does not fit the few existing silver mines in Europe, Asia and Africa. So, a certain part of this silver might have come from America. 2) The exploration and mapping of America seems to have occurred long before Columbus, and the portuguese court was involved in that fact. So, the templars' initiative in the Atlantic somehow matches this theory. From this point of view, you can make a link between the templars, the portuguese kingdom and Columbus, although he finally got the support needed not from Portugal but from the Catholic kings of Spain. 3) There is a unique finding in South America of a little statue of a caucasic bearded man with a latin cross on his chest. A templar knight? (yes, it could be a hoax or a misinterpretation, but what if it's confirmed as a true artifact?) Moreover, according to historian Juan de Varende, there are several native stories about the arrival of white men in large ships. In fact there are some reports from the early conquest times that indicate that the indians were not surprised by the symbol of the cross, they already knew it. Best regards

Author: Vanya
Date: April 21, 2013 04:17PM
Hi Xavier,
never mind, such question has been waited some centuries. .LOL. Remaining in the Hugues de Payns Templars (there were others in such times), we can take into consideration that the Letter of Credit (better say Letter of Change which is more appropriate) were the former main base to accumilate money: Templars in France, Portugal, England get money by Piligrims wo intend go to Holy Land. Templar ggive them a "Letter of Change" in which was written the amount received and the engagement to correrspond to Piligrims, once in Holy Land, the correspondent amount in "local" money by Templars there. The "Holy Land local money amount" was written in such "Letter of Cange". It is easy to understand that for Templars were a good profitable business because they established the rate of change ........... This system brought to Templars another main advantage: the incoming (local money) related to their acticvities (business) in Holy Lands never were sent in Europe, avoiding the risks which are typical when you transport "money". Last but not least the Templar in Europe did not paid any kind of taxes for such lucrative activity. About the "Discovery of America": It is officially atribute to Columbus (and IMHO wrongly teached at schools that he was the first one who did it), most probably because his discovery was done on behalf of a Kingdom (Catsilla y Aragona) who claimed the right on such territories and arranged several others expeditions there ......... the rest of the story we well know. In my opinion it is reasonable that most probably some other European just few centuries before Columbus went there, BUT what they found was just for themselves and their "dicsoveries" were accurately kept "Top secret", because who went there and returned (and may be with more further trips) did it with their private efforts and not in the name of any "Kingdom". Then if it happen it was just a business of a private "Corporation" only. Then as I said in my post, History is made by reperts found which can be analysed and compared in order to have the most probable idea on what went on. Speculation are based on few weak evidences which can be considered as just clues and nothing else. Of course some toughts can be made on these clues, but cannot be vehiculated as Histroy. Times has show that some speculations about past were true, while many and many other were just very far away from the reality. Nice and bright day Ivano

Author: BostonMikeR
Date: May 07, 2013 05:38AM
That's very interesting. Where did you hear about his maps originating with the Templars? I well aware (from Graham's book Underworld) of Columbus possessing, most likely, copies of extremely old maps, but I'm not sure I ever heard of their connection with the Templars. I am aware however, of the Templars role in the search for the lost Ark of the Covenant and their conversion into the similar secretive Christian based group in Portugal (which based on what you said, could have influenced or manipulated Columbus in some way). Something tells me that there is a connection between ancient biblical and pre-biblical tales (and many ancient myths) with the lost civilization Graham (and others) attributes to actually creating the originals of the maps Columbus was said to possess.... There's no doubt the Templars have had a very foggy but yet sizely role in alot of big events.

Origin content: http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?8,1000049

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Ruggero Marino
Author: Ruggero MarinoWebsite: http://www.ruggeromarino-cristoforocolombo.comEmail: Questo indirizzo email è protetto dagli spambots. È necessario abilitare JavaScript per vederlo.
Chi sono:
Ruggero Marino è giornalista e scrittore. Ha lavorato per 34 anni al quotidiano Il Tempo di Roma, ricoprendo le cariche di inviato speciale (visitando più di 50 paesi), di redattore capo e di responsabile del settore cultura. Ha scritto due libri di poesie, Minime e massime e L’inferno in paradiso (Premio Indic). Ha vinto oltre 10 premi giornalistici, fra i quali quello dell’Associazione Stampa Romana. Con il suo primo volume sull’Ammiraglio, Cristoforo Colombo e il papa tradito, ha vinto il Premio Scanno. Delle sue ricerche, che proseguono dal 1990, e che per la prima volta coinvolgono la Chiesa di Roma nella vicenda, si sono occupati storici, scrittori e media in Italia e all’estero (il Times gli ha dedicato due pagine). I suoi studi sono stati citati all’Accademia dei Lincei. Ha esposto le proprie tesi in numerosissime conferenze, anche in università italiane e straniere. È stato invitato a New York dall’Istituto italiano di cultura e fa parte della Commissione scientifica per le annuali celebrazioni del 12 ottobre in onore di Colombo. Per approfondimenti è possibile consultare Wikipedia al seguente link: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruggero_Marino
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